Subject: 74:30-31 (Was Muhamad disbeliever?)

From: "MrAbc X" <mrabcx@hotmail.com>

There are those who now-a-days claim that number 19 mentioned in sura 74, verse 30 refers to the so-called mathematical miracle of the Quran which is based upon number 19. This code was discovered rather "recently", in 1974, and according to believers in code 19 it gave a whole new meaning to sura 74, particularly to verses 30-31. But what about all those who lived before this "miracle" was extrapolated ? How did they look at 74:30-31 ?

"Over it are nineteen. And We have not made the wardens of the fire others than angels, and We have not made their number but as a fitna(punishement,torment,trial,etc.) for those who disbelieve, that those who have been given the book may be certain and those who believe may increase in faith, and those who have been given the book and the believers may not doubt, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the unbelievers may say: What does Allah mean by this parable? Thus does Allah make err whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases, and none knows the hosts of your Lord but He Himself; and this is naught but a reminder to the mortals. " 74:30-31

If we neglect "code 19" or show the above verses to someone who doesn't know anything about the "mathematical miracle" then the simple interpretation one will end up with is that the number 19 refers to the numbers of malaikas/angels guarding the fire. This is not very unreasonable at all and is a pretty straightforward conclusion.

One important point to observe is that the disbelievers will ask themselves: "What does Allah mean by this parable?". The only one person we can be confident about who was not a disbeliever was prophet Mohammed. He had no reason to ask "What does Allah mean by this?".

Mohammed's understanding of 74:30-31 was atleast CORRECT. It is obvious that Mohammed must not have had any difficulty at all with these verses and he could also easily tell what number "19" referred to. Maybe I'm not a true believer, you may not be a true believer .. but Mohammed was indeed a sincere believer.

If Mohammed did not had a genuine interpretation of 74:30-31 then that means that he was one of the unbelievers. Only the disbelievers would ask "what does God mean by this". This was guranteed not the case. He knew precisely what 19 pointed to.

Now, if Mohammed had a correct understanding of 74:30-31 and he did NOT know anything about "code 19" then that implies that number "19" in 74:31 did NOT refer to any numerical based miracle at all.

Mohammed understood 74:30-31 perfectly correct from sura 74 itself WITHOUT any reference to some mathematical code. Sura 74 has not changed over the years; "19" points to the same objects which it pointed to for 1400 years ago. Believers in code19 however claim that these verses become very confusing and meaningless without "code 19". They even like to make fun of those who try to understand sura 74 without taking account of the "math miracle". They seem to forget that Mohammed managed to understand sura 74 correctly without the need of any code based on 19.

We can for example assume that number 19 refers to the number of angels and this too was Mohammed's understanding; then surely any other understanding of 74:30-31 must be false. 19 refers to the number of angels, it's a static fact; a fact which will remain unchanged no matter how the verses are twisted. In such cases this verse does not fall into the category of "scientifical-verses" which can be related to modern science theories. These verses had a correct and clear meaning for those who lived 1400 years ago, an insight they got without any mathematical code at all, an understanding which is in no need for a change.

One can not expect these verses to have double meanings; referring to the number of angels in ancient days and now-a-days pointing to the "mathematical miracle". One of the interpretations must be wrong. The understanding that this verse refers to "code 19" must then be discarded as this makes everyone a disbeliever who did not understand the verses during last 1400 years. The new interpretation is also as far as it could ever be from the understanding of the one person we know for certain was a true believer. The only person who surely didn't ask "what does God mean by this?".

Believers in code 19 on the other hand however have no gurantee that they really are the selected ones by God. Should we not follow God and his prophet ?

Actually we do not know, and don't need to know, Mohammed's exact interpretation of 74:30-31. All we know is that his understanding had nothing to do with "code 19" yet it was a CORRECT understanding of the verses.

It is hence simple to conclude that the believers in code 19 boast that "19" in 74:30 refers to the 19-div pattern is false and based upon nothing but pure conjecture.

If number 19 in 74:30 refers to the "19 miracle" then one must accept that Mohammed either (1)knew about "code 19" or (2) he had a false and incorrect understanding of 74:30-31.

(2) of course can't be true unless Mohammed had to ask: "what does God mean by this?" Was he a disbeliever ?

What about (1)? Did Mohammed know about "code 19" in his own life time? I leave that upto believers in code19 to decide.

"Code 19" has absolutely no basis in sura 74.

To sum up: only believers will understand the parable given in sura 74, disbelievers will ask "what does God mean by this?". Mohammed was a sincere believer => Mohammed did not ask "what does God mean by this" => Mohammed did not know anything about code 19 => his understanding of 74:30-31 was correct => 74:30-31 does not refer to any math miracle at all