Subject: Who said it? GOD or Rashad?
A believer in code 19 wrote: > I must ask you again, is it GOD or Rashad, who said: > > 74:30-Over it is Nineteen. ?
God said it but, there is no mention of code 19 in the verse,nor the words "19 is miracle", nor "Rashad is a messeneger", nor "delete 2 verses from Quran", nor "j day is in 2280." etc.etc.etc. all this is Rashads invention and interpretation and whoever believes and uphold it, then his god must be Rashad and not Allah.... Over it nineteen reffers to 19 angel over hell fire... see context...
Again whatever the meaning of 74/30-is, it can not represent the basis of Quran and its doctrine, 74/30-31 is full of mutashabihat/undeicsive/ambiguous phrases and according 3/7 ONLY muhkamat ajats are BASIS/SOURCE OF THE BOOK and mutashabehaat are not SOURCE, BUT THEY ARE ABUSED and followed by those in whose hearts is perversity for creating fitna.... and having this in mind from the very beggining 74/30-31 can not stand as a proof for any doctrine including code 19....
Further...
> Is it GOD or Rashad who said: > > 74:31-And We have set none but angels as guardians of the Fire; > > and We have ordained their number ?
Yes God said it, but again there is no mention of code 19,and there is no mention of word sign, counting calculating,deleting, correcting, protecting of Quran, all this is but an invention of Rashad and whoever uphold it Rashad is his God..... (see post scriptum-p.s., for one additional clarification of the expression "their number") > Is it GOD or Rashad who said: > > only as a trial for Unbelievers, ?
God actualy said "we did not made/set/appoint their number but a FITNA to those who disbelieved... Because of context we see that fitna here should be translated as punishement or torment and not as trial... Surah talk about the man who denies Gods revelation and about Gods promise of hell fire to him -torturing in saqar-hell fire, and 19 malaikah are those who perform this punishement(66/6)...so we clearly see that this part of the verse reffers to hereafter and not to this world as you implie.... But whatever -no mention of code 19 , no mention of 19 being Sign, no mention of 19 being proof ,no mention of 19 correcting quran, no mention of 19 interpreting quran,no mention of Rashad being a messenger etcetcetc
> > Was it GOD or Rashad who said: > > in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, ?
Yes the/a number of malaikaha is made to be but a punishement for those who disbelieve(d), and this quranic admonition/warning will be of use to people to get to certainity... Quranic warnings of which hell fire (including all of its punishement performed by malaikah) is the most frequent, according to Quran have power to help people in attaining certainity, to increase in people awarness of hearafter and all the truths and purposes of their lifes, and to help the people(who read about these warnings in God`s book, and who "believe" in it, but are not convinced and are not on level of certainity) to attain certainity... Also possibly when people who do not act as they should(-acting as being certain is certainity acording quran) read this quranic admonitions and all punishement in hell fire which are performed by those malaikah)they will get certainity.... Fearing of the punishement in hearafter force people to make good deeds, to be just , to read Quran,to learn, to strive in Gods path and to obey Allah commands in Quran and acting that way they attain certainity and increase their faith...and are prevented from falling in doubts... Does not reading of Quran ITSELF and its admonitions,morals,lessons, messages, wisdoms have CONVINCING power?? I am sure youll agree on this...
> Is it GOD or Rashad who said: > > and the Believers may increase in Faith,?
Again there is no mention of code 19 and similar stuff , all that is but a Rashads invention...
The/a number of malaikaha is made to be but a punishement for those who disbelieved, and this quranic admonition will increase the faith of believers
reading Gods verses=>fearing of fire and its angels=> avoiding evil and following quran and reading quran=> increasing in faith
8:2 "They only are the BELIEVERS whose hearts feel fear when Allah is mentioned, and when THE REVELATIONS/verses of Allah are RECITED unto them THEY INCREASE THEIR FAITH, and who trust in their Lord"
> Is it GOD or Rashad who said: > > and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers,?
The answer is same as above...Plus,one more time no mention of codes no mention of 2280, no mention of 19 being a Sign,
> Is it GOD or Rashad who said: > > and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, > "What symbol doth Allah intend by this? ?
Again no mention of code 19 , just mention of unbelievers and those who have disease in their hearts which can not comprehend what God intended....
> Is it GOD or Rashad who said: > > Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth; and guide whom He pleaseth; and none can know the forces of >thy Lord, except He. And this is no other than a warning to mankind. ?
Again no mention of code 19.... No one know why exactly 19 malaikah upon hell fire...only God know his soldiers , their characteristics, their capabilities etc. but we know that their purpose is to punish and torture disbelievers in hell (66/6) Why 19 why not 21 or 7 or etc only God knows.... Why 8(malaikah) will carry the throne of Allah at j day as mentioned in Quran-allah knows the best ... Why exactly 11 players of soccer , i do not know?
The Phrase "wa ma hije illa zikra lil bashar" "and this(or it) is but a warning to mankind" reffers to saqar or/and Quran... again you only have ambiguos phrase to dwel upon- according to 3/7 those in whose hearts is perversity follow what is ambiguous from Quran....And when we look at it in the light of quran and in the light of its muhkamat verses- more precise and decisive verses- we see that it can only reffer to saqar or/and to quran and its admonitions...
> Is it GOD or Rashad who said: > > 72:28-"That he may know that they have delivered the Messages of their Lord: > and He surrounds what is with them, and He has counted all things numerically." ?
God said it... but to understand it corectly we must look at the context...the previous verse tell us that God set up the guardians before and behind the messenger... (and now comes the quoted verse) "That He may know that they have delivered the Messages of their Lord,and He surrounds what is with them, and He has counted all things numerically."
And yes, God keeps the count of all things .. no mention of codes , no mention that WE should count... Simply- God set up the guardians before and behind his messengers in order to assure that messengers will deliver the message... And then comes the phrases which describe Gods power and knowledge, which tell us that God encompasses what is with them and takes account of every single thing.
072.026 The Knower of the unseen! so He does not reveal His secrets to any,
072.027 Except to him whom He chooses as a messenger; for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him,
072.028 So that He may know that they have truly delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses what is with them and He records the number of all things.
No codes no order for counting, calculating,etc... no mention that WE should count...but it says that God kkeps the count of all things... If you think that this is an order for counting, then, will you accept that this is an order for obligatory mantioning of Muhamads name in salaat?
13/43 And those who disbelieve say: You are not a messenger. Say: Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has knowledge of the Book.
Further....
> Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > put 19 Arabic letters in the basmallah? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > divided the Qur'an into 114 chapters, 6 x 19? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > put the basmallah over every chapter but chapter 9? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > put an extra basmallah in 27:30 to make a total of 114? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > made 619 the 114th prime number? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > mentioned a total of 38 numbers in the Qur'an, 2 x 19? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > mentioned 30 whole/cardinal numbers in the Qur'an? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > made 30 the 19th composite number? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > mentioned 8 fractions/whole numbers in the Qur'an? > > Is it GOD or Rashad who: > > made the 8th prime number 19?
This is a little of numerology that could be found in any book... its just a mater how diligent worker you are...you have an ocean of numbers and statistics in which every 19th number is 19 divisible,and if you try enough combinations you will necesserily get a few of 19 divisible numbers/calculations or you will find a few interesting numbers ....you have compositso , prime numbers, twin primes,verse numbers, surah nubers, counts of initials, gematrical values etc etcetc..If number is not 19 divisible then he may be 19th or (for example 57th prime-that is, 19 divisible prime etcetc), or 19 divisible composit, or you may relate to to a verse number, or to gematrical value of this or that, or to year of discovery or etc etc etc etc
The best exaple of it is that traditionaly salat timing and rakats are confirmed by 19 divisible calculation, or bible code ,etcetcec
This numbers are not more significant that bible code is...Why not believe in bible code-7?
**According to E. W. Bullinger in "Number in Scripture", the number seven represents "spiritual perfection."(1) In Hebrew, the number seven(shevah) comes from the root word savah, which means "to be full or satisfied, have enough of."**
You see it is clear sign embeded by God in human language to show to us that No 7 "increaes the faith"...
Also it is not hard to find some verses in bible that clearly propheciese that No 7 is very important number and increaes faith, specialy if you read bible daily...and if you are allowed to take verses out of context, or twist the meaning or/and to assign to them some allegorical meaning as code 19 believers do...
In Daniel's(a chapter in bible) "time-oriented" prophecy, the number seven also points to spiritual perfection or completeness for the Jewish people. *** Seventy "sevens" have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up visionand prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place. (Dan. 9:24). ***
Is it coincidence???!!!!
salaam, Zlatan p.s. This is one additional clarification of the expression "their number" mentioned in 74/31 Suppose that someone ask me: "how many lawyers we need to win this lawsuit?" And suppose that I answer: Such number which will be able to perform all the numerous tasks, BUT which, in the same time, would be able to fully COOPERATE on performing their duties WITHOUT DISRUPTING each other...
When i answer that this or that number is enough/needed to do the job, it is clear to every healthy person that actually THEY will do the job and not their number as an apstract 5,6,7,8 etc..
This is a perfect explanation of "their number" in 74/31...
Believers in the code beat the verse to the death and extricate from it that- it is not "19 of malaikah" that are fitna/punishement for those who disbelieved(in hereafter)- but No 19 as an apstract and symbol of code 19- is fitna/punishement/trial for disbelievers (in this world) They say "their number" is not "19 of malaikah" but "their number" is simply -"19"...
they laugh at me and ridicule When i say that their number is not 19, but 19 of them- 19 malaikah..
Look again what God says in 9/36: "indeed the *number of months* in the sight of Allah is *12 months*..."
Is Allah stupid??
Allah said "the *number of months*...is *12 months*"
Why did not allah said "the number of months is 12"?? but He said "the *number of months*...is *12 months*"...
(So-their number is not 19, but 19 of them- 19 malaikah...)
Of course it is the same whether you say "the number of months is 12" or "12 months"- it is just human language and everybody know what is meant.. The same case is with "their number" in 74/31 When Allah said: "we did not made/set their number but a fitna/punishement for those who disbelieve(d)in order that..." It simply means that 19 of malaikah are punishement for disbelievers(in hell)and this quranic admonition will result in effects listed after that-increasing in faith, removing doubts etc But believers in the code argue and try to extricate their doctrine from this verse,and they argue: you see the verse does not say that malaikah are fitna, but it say that "their number", that is 19 itself-as an apstract and symbol of code 19 and as one of Gods Sign is fitna for disbelievers and increases faith and remove doubts etcetcetc...They argue:
** Here is a simple IQ test for Zlaitaan : When GOD says THEIR NUMBER, He means : (a) Simply THEIR NUMBER (i.e. 19). (b) Not THEIR NUMBER, but THEM (c) Hell (d) Quran **
A certain NUMBER of reasons make me to believe that they are wrong and only follow what is ambiguos from quran...i remind you of 3/7 salaam...Zlatan